Curse

jezz · Dec 28, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

i think there is major confusion over this BMP issue..
but the facts are Anet can do what ever they want..they never stated that they would never release it again..that is what Gaile is trying to say..
it was exclusive at the time to qualifying accounts for the promotion, yet it can be released again because it doesnt say One Time Offer, it said Limited.
i rushed out and bought 3 more char slots...and now if they release it for sale makes me a little angry..but life isnt always perfect or fair.
i have friends that never bothered with the promotion and now have seen the weapons..and now want it. personally i think tough you missed it..i made the effort and you didnt so i am the one rewarded.
then again if there was more details on BMP as in rewards maybe more of these guys would of purchased first time around.

Gaile do you have any release dates for BMP sale in online store? or is it just in discussions at the moment?

cheers
jezz

wetsparks · Dec 28, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hott Bill

Anet said "If you spend money in the in-game store you would receive the BMP" stop crying because you were not smart enough to buy when the promotion was going on.

I totally agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

So the message in the future is: don't buy anything from Anet at release. In two months it will be way cheaper AND you can get any special promotion still.

If you want to look at it like that, why buy anything from any company at release? It will just be cheaper later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by To many people

Lots of people crying about wanting a box if ANET let people get the BMP another way, if the box is that important to you, why didn't you just buy the game in a real store? You didn't HAVE to buy GW:EN in the in game store to get the BMP, any $29 purchase would have qualified. It didn't matter what was "implied" or anything else what was said was,

Quote:

For a limited time, when you spend $29 USD (€26/£17) or more in the Guild Wars In-Game Store or through the PlayNC Store, you will get a Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack for free!

I don't see anything about it not being available later. I also noticed a lot of people quoting this,

Quote:

The Bonus Pack will only be available to the exact account that fulfills this promotion in the in-game store

But people seem to be ignoring the part that the sentence is elaborating on the previous sentence.

Quote:

This promotion is non-transferable and is limited to one per account.

BTW Gaile, I know you try your best but some people just like to complain whenever they think they are being slighted, even over the simplest of things.

DivineEnvoy · Dec 28, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

As much as I would normally defend you guys I can't on this one.

The language used *strongly* implied it, in fact it is pretty much the same language used for CE and pre-order stuff when it was out. It obviously isn't false advertising or bait and switch, however it isn't a very good thing going on. It reminds me of a friend of mine that purchased a device that would make all your remotes into one unit (mind, this is the late 80's early 90's when this stuff was new) for about half of what all the others cost - they received a rubber band and instructions on how to band them together. Not false, not bait and switch, not even a lie - yet no one is going to feel happy and content when this happens.

At the very least you chose to respond to threads in which it was *always* said to be exclusive (that is, the only way to get it) with answers to any questions except correcting that one. If you has even once said otherwise I would also be right there pointing it out. You pretty much gave tacit approval to the message there. In fact, how long was it before you even convinced others that it needed to be available in the online store - your constant "I will check" also strongly implies it was not originally intended to general release and was the equivalent of the CE stuff.

I don't see *anyone* arguing that they thought otherwise, they are simply arguing that it isn't fair to do this and now want both. I would note they only argued this *after* they saw the missions were good - they were assuming they would suck and not be worth it and those of us that spent *extra* in your online store had a belief that you guys would do good.

Ahh well, like I said before offer it for what I payed for it - 29 dollars and I won't really care too much (I still think it is wrong, but I can live with that). I would also say that you can sell the BMP for 5-10 dollars but allow the weapons to stay exclusive to those of us who supported you (much like the CE or pre-order items remain exclusive). I *do* feel sorry for newer players that would like to play those missions and were not there for the promotion. Lets face it, I (and the other BMP people) purchased the game to get the missions anyway, the weapons were a nice add-on and is most likely what most of the complainers are actually wanting.

In the end you guys said "support us and we will give you something special" (much the same reason many of us get CE editions) and it is now turning into something that is well, not special. I purchase the game because I like it and I don't see that changing, however I spend a little extra for the online store and purchase special editions to support you guys and it doesn't feel nice to have the promised reward to be given to everyone who didn't bother to do so even though they knew about it. If this turns out wrong I can't say my motivation for paying a little more to help you guys out is going to be very strong and I rather suspect that you will loose more than from that sentiment than you stand to gain from doing what some want for the BMP.

Although the language used in this case may strongly implied that Bonus Mission Pack will only be obtainable through this promotion, it does not make it so. We can look at this case by converting Anet's words into an if-then statement, which is, if you do participate in this promotion, you will get the Bonus Mission Pack. This if-then statement is only false when you do participate in this promotion, and you do not get the Bonus Mission Pack, since Anet has never stated what will happen if you do not participate in this promotion. So logically, Anet has not betrayed anyone by providing an alternative way to sell or promote the Bonus Mission Pack.

Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it

As we can see, 2/4 will not be affected either way, since they do not mind. Now we should know that 1/4 will be pleased either way the decision is made, but only one of the two will provide additional revenue for Anet. Even so, this will result in some angry gamers who believe they have been betrayed, and so, we have Gaile Gray here trying to please them.

What Gaile Gray is doing right now is pointing out the most simplistic logics to that Anet has never promised what these angry gamers may have implied to, which is true and logical. They are only trying to gain some revenue for the production of Guild Wars 2; it's not a crime.

Personally, I fall into class two, people who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care. Nevertheless, I have friends who didn't not participate in the promotion to get the Bonus Mission Pack, and their reasons may vary from they did not have money at the time to they did not expect it to be good. It would be a good if an alternative is made. Consequently, it's not really a big deal, there's really nothing rewarding to these missions but to have the joy from playing it, and I don't see why is everyone being so outraged to share this joy. It's only two days after Christmas, and I didn't expect the so-called Christmas spirit can be faded so early.

VitisVinifera · Dec 28, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

quoted from Gaile from the 11/02 BMP petition thread:

"In the end, the BMP is a modest "thank you" to those who used our in-game store to make their purchase. Its purpose is twofold: To encourage use of the in-game store, and to express appreciation to those who do. It is a win/win for customer and company. For those who did not choose to participate, or felt that they would rather have a box, or did not have a means to purchase, those decisions or those issues do not refute the overall value of the promotion, or the reasoning behind our offering it."

quoted from Gaile on 11/01 from here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...19#post3284019

The deadline was Noon Pacific yesterday, as it said on the official BMP Page and on the official wiki page.

The Bonus Mission Pack qualification period is over now. The BMP will be released sometime in November. I'll let you know as soon as we have a release date!

That's when the Dev quote threads end, and I know there are more. But these 2 show a breach of trust.

IlikeGW · Dec 28, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it

Well I have the BMP and wouldn't say I'm outraged or don't care... more I just worry about how if their marketing terms change in this kind of random way how we know what we're getting in the future. I guess the answer is unless it's called "CE" don't put yourself out to get it because they'll make it available later? But that doesn't hold true either necessarily as many non CE special things aren't available.

genofreek · Dec 28, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Gaile, I love GW and enjoy Anet's involvement in the community, but I can't say it much better than strcpy already did. I read the same description people have already posted about the promotion and bought GW:EN online with the assumption that it was, as stated, a limited time offer. You can use all the legalese and technicalities you'd like, and I DO respect ANet's commitment to their profits, but you can't deny that it said it was described as ending on October 31st and no other release date was offered. STRONGLY implying it was a limited edition. Sort of like other special events/items that were given out once and never repeated?

You must understand why we're annoyed about the BMP apparently turning out to be limited-time-but-not-really. The way you're dancing around the bold quotes posted by others on this forum now and splitting hairs to imply that BMP's going to be re-released is a slap in the face to everyone who supported GW's online store this summer. I bought GW:EN the day it was available with the understanding that I was going to get in on some fun new content that wouldn't be around forever, and now I've lost some trust in your company. I already know what the trust of a few players is to any business compared to another influx of cash though, so eh. I have mine already and I won't have to pay extra for the same content, at least.

Also, in before the thousands of threads and e-mails demanding the re-release of collector's editions, free GW:EN boxes for current BMP owners, event treasure/hats, the hippo, etc. All with the same argument -- people are willing to pay, so why not put it out there for resale?

arcanemacabre · Dec 28, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it

Dividing up or generalizing never really works. I, personally, have the BMP and do care. In other words, I would prefer it get re-released somehow so that others have a chance to get it. I think it's a win/win for both the company and the customers (who don't have it and would like to get it). It's a Bonus mission pack, not a Collector's mission pack. Bonus meaning extra; collector's meaning unique, limited, or exclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genofreek

You must understand why we're annoyed about the BMP apparently turning out to be limited-time-but-not-really.

That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.

Striken7 · Dec 28, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

This really is the worst kind of "community relations" I've ever seen from a game company. Either you're going to stick by your word and not offer the BMP again, or you've changed your mind and will offer it in a different format. Either way, try actually taking responsibility for the things said, or quit your job, because this display of mock PR is disgusting. I'm tired of Anet using the "the player base is too ignorant to know the difference" defense whenever they need to actually make a decision/change, and this is the main reason I won't be playing GW2.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.

Finally, someone points this out.

genofreek · Dec 28, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.

Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.

I care in the sense that I believed BMP was only available this summer. I'm on a reasonably tight budget and gave up a few things (not counting the box; I don't care about that) to get it. I'm annoyed, yes, but I'm not spittle-flecked and fumbling for my monocle over here.

arcanemacabre · Dec 28, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by genofreek

Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.

Well, that is true, but that could just be chalked up to the fact that they may not have known whether they were going to release it again or not. Also, keep in mind that is was a "promotion." Much in the same way that say offering a t-shirt with the purchase of a game/movie/whatever is a promotion. That company could later offer that t-shirt for sale separately and no one would complain. The t-shirt itself is not limited or collectible (unless otherwise specifically stated), and so the option to sell it separately later is left open, depending on how well it is received by consumers.

On that level, I don't see anything wrong with it.

CHannum · Dec 28, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by genofreek

Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.

It's not splitting hairs, it was a clear as day from the promotional page (still up on the official site) that there was not a limited time availability for the BMP itself, only the promotion. It's not like we are ignorant islanders who just showed up in western civilisation and were offered the BMP. No, we've been exposed to advertisements from the time we were old enough to watch television and we ought to have learned a few things about how to read advertisements. Number one is that the seller is going to emphasise what they believe to be the strongest selling points for the item, and people should note that the ONLY time any exclusivity is mentioned is in the small print legalese at the very bottom of the promotion, and context made it clear it was only conferring account exclusivisity, NOT BMP exclusivisity. If it were intended to have been the one time chance to get the BMP, that would have been a leading point, probably *the* leading point, in promoting it, and it was not. The emphasis is on getting a bonus mission pack free for buying stuff, full stop.

I find it laughable that so many reading comprehension challenged gamers, instead of realising they made a choice they now realise wasn't necessarily the best due to their misunderstanding, are yammering like drunken sports fan after their team lost and blaming Anet for their stupidity.

Zeek Aran · Dec 28, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Finally, someone points this out.

Gaile said this, page three. Go back and look.

Ow, I just burnt my tongue licking this lamp.

Gaile Gray · Dec 28, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

I'm sorry that a few of you are still struggling to see the difference between the Bonus Mission Pack and the Bonus Mission Pack Promotion. But they are two things, as different as a coupon for a bag of popcorn and the popcorn itself.

Truly none of us made statements such as, "Take part in this promotion because you will never get a chance to obtain the BMP again," or "We will not offer the BMP, or even a new BMP promotion, in the future." We are offering several promotions right now -- are some people reading those as "limited" or "exclusive" or "will never be repeated?" When we decided to extend the eligibility period for the Unlock packs, did anyone accuse us of lying for doing so?

If someone misread the contents of the product page, the FAQ, or the Dev Updates, than I am truly sorry, but a dozen pairs of eyes were on those documents before they were published, hundreds of thousands of pairs of eyes were on them after publication, and those who feel that we said either "We will never offer this promotion again," or "We will never offer this product again" are just simply mistaken.

I have read all that you have said, and I have seen all that you have quoted. But honestly, nothing says, "This is the only time this will be offered," or "There is no other way to get this product," or "If you don't participate in the promotion, you will not be able to obtain the BMP later."

With all due respect for all that you feel or believe or want us to do, the facts are that the BMP Promotion gave a free product to those who participated in the promotion. If that product is sold at a later date, there is absolutely no breach of trust or lie in doing so.

As a matter of fact, despite what some are saying, offering the BMP through another means is more supportive of the community than not doing so. Some players could not obtain the BMP because they did not have a means to use the In-Game or PlayNC Store. They literally could not participate in the promotion, even if they wanted to and were willing to meet every single promotion requirement. If someone misunderstood a promotion in which they took part, should that affect the ability of others to obtain a product that they may be willing to purchase?

strcpy · Dec 28, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

quoted from Gaile from the 11/02 BMP petition thread:

"In the end, the BMP is a modest "thank you" to those who used our in-game store to make their purchase. Its purpose is twofold: To encourage use of the in-game store, and to express appreciation to those who do. It is a win/win for customer and company. For those who did not choose to participate, or felt that they would rather have a box, or did not have a means to purchase, those decisions or those issues do not refute the overall value of the promotion, or the reasoning behind our offering it."

And that is *precisely* what I was talking about. DivineEnvoy can tell me all sorts of reasons why others want them, or even why others should get them and I don't necessarily disagree. Had it's marketing been different I would wholly agree. However, I doubt if it had been clear that the only thing you were getting was the BMP free instead of exclusive content it wouldn't have sold as many copies as it did, many of us would have went to a distributor and gotten their box and other goodies (I know I would have). Anet basically has to decide if it is worth ticking off those of us that went through the hassle of getting it to please those that don't (especially given that the BMP was a thank you for loyal customers that used the store).

So, is it worth making those of us who supported you feel that way? As many complaints you are getting over not having the BMP available *none* thought you would be (though now that you have posted what you did some are changing what they have been saying). If you go through with this then next time one of these "thank you's" comes up what do you think those of us that got screwed are going to say in the forums?

I really fell sorry for those that purchased three character slots (one of the things suggested) just to get the BMP, usually because they really wanted a box. I came close to doing that as it was either that or GWEN (I really like the boxes, the artwork is fantastic) and I know of a few people who did this. If/when this becomes available I can't wait to see some of these people come back and start ranting. Lets face it, if it was never meant to be exclusive then this answer *really* sucked - I suppose you did answer his *direct* question but in a VERY unhelpful way based on what the person was trying to do.

I'll still hold off on my final judgment and see how they handle it - if it cost 29 dollars then none of us are ripped off (we still saved 20-30 dollars) or if they still leave things like the weapons exclusive then I will be mostly happy and I imagine most of us BMP owners would be OK with it (While not happy that is a far cry from feeling taken advantage of, though some will feel that way if it is anything other than what was originally advertised). However, I rather suspect that nearly all of the whiners will still QQ some more about it not being fair. I rather suspect they are expecting cheap, unlimited, max gold incribable weapons with some of the best skins in the game and that is their main goal.

Edit:

Given the following comment: "I'm sorry that a few of you are still struggling to see the difference between the Bonus Mission Pack and the Bonus Mission Pack Promotion." I guess I'm not too optimistic. Ah well, this type of defense is approaching a "let them eat cake!" type of answer - better off not responding. I think this one is not going to end well on Anet's part with respect to PR, especially given if they try and do a "promotion" again - I shudder to see all the questions that are going to be thrown at them because they didn't *exactly* say something in clear language.

Well, thats it - I was more talking to Anet (us forum goers have bashed this to death already) so far and I've said my piece. Obviously many of us were wrong and we *should* read everything Anet says as if we were lawyers trying to figure out how many different ways what they say could be taken. They are determined that this is the case, so be it.

Gaile Gray · Dec 28, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezz

Gaile do you have any release dates for BMP sale in online store? or is it just in discussions at the moment?

Oh, I'm just chatting here with players, trying to understand the concerns about the matter and look at the whole thing from several different angles.

I don't have any information about the sale of the BMP, or a new BMP promotion, or anything of that sort. Sorry.

maraxusofk · Dec 28, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Nahhh, look at you all! So selfish.
Just becuase you got a new toy you dont want others to get it too.
Want to feel different and special? Putt a watermelon on your head and go take a walk!
Your are all sounding like spoiled children.
This is just like asking to lower some requirements at HoM, some people dont want it to because they have it and they dont want others to have it. Just like selfish spolied little children.
And now correct me if im wrong.

And by the way, you should be happy if they become available. Im sure there are at least 1-2 people you know that couldnt get the BMP for one reason or another. So feel happy for them, instead of wishing his disgrace.

omg ur statement jsut gave me the most awesome idea ever. wut if we took all the money that COULD have been made in investing in oil during the 80's, and redistribute it to everybody who missed out?!?!?!?! oh why dont we go just a teensy step further and take all property other people missed out on buying and redistributing it? OMG i think that becasue we are helping the social status of our society, ill call this idea socialism!

Sirius-NZ · Dec 28, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Initially I didn't expect the BMP to be re-offered. Later on - I think after I'd already bought GW:EN through the online store - I started hearing of people who for some reason (usually Europeans and credit cards) COULDN'T get it - and I remember Gaile saying that she'd push for some alternative means for those people to get in on it as well.

So some later release didn't surprise me at that point, although I wouldn't really have expected it to be actually sold in the store - more a follow-up promotion through some other means.

I still consider a new promotion - possibly involving magazines or something to cater to the European contingent, rather than needing the online store - more likely than just releasing it for sale outright.

jezz · Dec 28, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I really fell sorry for those that purchased three character slots (one of the things suggested) just to get the BMP, usually because they really wanted a box.

Please dont feel sorry for other players choices..i got the box and 3 char slots..i am happy with my choice.

Thank you Gaile for clearing this matter up, i have had mixed feelings about this, but in the end if others were not able to get it due to some reasons outside of there control, maybe now they will have that opportunity.
So any dates as to when this may be available for sale in online store?

so i can let my friends know that had missed out.

forget my question you beat me to it.

arcanemacabre · Dec 28, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

omg ur statement jsut gave me the most awesome idea ever. wut if we took all the money that COULD have been made in investing in oil during the 80's, and redistribute it to everybody who missed out?!?!?!?! oh why dont we go just a teensy step further and take all property other people missed out on buying and redistributing it? OMG i think that becasue we are helping the social status of our society, ill call this idea socialism!

Well obviously there is a difference between digital code that can create nearly limitless commodities versus the real world with very real limited resources. You do realize that obvious difference, right?

To strcpy: You honestly can't be that bent out of shape over something you (and tens/hundreds of thousands of others) got for free, being re-offered (even at a price) to those who missed out. Does having the BMP make you feel that special that your life would mean nothing if everyone had it? I mean, if not, I don't understand why you would be upset in the least.